Notes from inside your Wii

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Argon claims we didn’t write the Twilight Hack

January 12th, 2009 by marcan · 40 Comments

Here’s the ridiculous response that I received when I sent them an e-mail demanding that they stop hosting the Twilight Hack.

According to the COPYRIGHT LAW the owner of the “SOFTWARE RIGHTS” need to proof that.

We need some evidence that you wrote this code, and better if this code is currently registered on a COPYRIGHT AUTHORITY.

Marcan, is not simple says “I’M OWNER OF THIS CODE” to ask COPYRIGHT protection.

If you can proof under your responsability (is a code that brake DRM protection of NINTENDO WII, without any licence of NINTENDO) that this code is yours, we will remove it from our ZIP files.
Before of course we cannot proceede

I’m waiting a EVIDENCES


I guess Argon is special, and “Copyright (C) 2003,2004,2008 tmbinc, segher, bushing, marcan” just isn’t enough for them.

Or maybe they want me to submit full source code to them?

It’s pretty funny that they, of all people, would try to claim that we’re braking DRM.

Tags: Wii

40 responses so far ↓

  • 1 zc00gii // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Argon epic fails. Apparently they can’t read readme’s or licenses

  • 2 Zwartbaard // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    I’ve just had a good time. Took the f*cking Argon out of my Wii, and smashed it with a sledgehammer. Going to solder a Wasabi v3 in tomorrow.

    Damn those Italians, wished I`d never trusted Infectus in the first place!

  • 3 tech3475 // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Now this is getting ridiculous.

  • 4 bugger // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Marcan, just hurry up and own this guy.

  • 5 Hugh Isaacs II // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    This must be very annoying (I hate it when the loosing side fights till the end).

  • 6 liquitt // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:57 pm



    so yeah, who says twilight hack is yours? hahaha 😉

  • 7 kmeisthax // Jan 12, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Apparently, copyright doesn’t apply if you don’t want it to.

  • 8 http://muhmuhkuh.myopenid.com/ // Jan 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Other Question: If they mean the hack isn’t from you, why they know that they are allowed to use the hack?

  • 9 bootlegger // Jan 12, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Dont suppose its possible to add some function to the devkitpro toolchain to check if the app has been called by the argon in some way, maybe by checking if the called file name extention ends in WAD or does the entry point change if called by WAD instead of .dol etc?? If so, they the developer could detect this and quit the app if they dont agree with the argon install…just a thought…

  • 10 Zim // Jan 12, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Is the bad grammar coming from translation issues, or is Team Twiizers up against a group of third-graders with a kid-friendly thesaurus and a caps-lock fetish?

    Either way, you guys need to get this problem taken care of. I understand that you guys are probably trying to avoid bringing the law into this, but, personally, I would have tried to sue them by now. They got their chance to remove what they needed to, and they refused.

  • 11 azeroth48 // Jan 12, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    I’m waiting a EVIDENCES

    … Anyone see golem in there head?

    –myyy preciouses–

  • 12 sycophantic // Jan 12, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Time for some take down notices

  • 13 HyperHacker // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    I guess they want some sort of paper evidence? It’s obvious they have no idea how copyright works. Maybe they’re waiting for you to submit a copy of some certificate proving you own the copyright.

  • 14 ChuckBartowski // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @ Zim
    “or is Team Twiizers up against a group of third-graders with a kid-friendly thesaurus and a caps-lock fetish?”
    But back to serious, this is getting way out of hand. Esp. at the point when people are srait out saying you don’t own something when you were the first one to ever put up a hack of this kind and no one else has ever said anything about it. And the fact of the little signature on the fake-signed ISO. How can they deny that.

  • 15 robinsod // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Marcan, I completely understand where you are coming from. I don’t know your work BUT I do know and respect tmbinc’s work on the 360.

    I’m a bit shocked by the results of your analysis since I have not paid much attention to what has been happening in the Argon Channel, I fully acknowledge that ignorance is no excuse however.

    I, personally, completely agree that the work on the Twilight Princess Hack belongs to Team Twiizers and I have made my feelings known to the rest of the guys.

    The only thing I would like to add is that I believe there is no intention to make a direct financial gain from other peoples work. It seems to me that the Argon Channel really is a boon to homebrew users, everything in one place for free & guaranteed that there’s no malicious ‘bricker’ wares.

    I fully appreciate you have had problems in the past with blatant scammers repackaging and selling your work. The ArgonChannel offers positive gains to its users & they are not the only ones to lock their end users in by using a serial number.

    Clearly re-packaging existing hacks/wares gives the ArgonChannel a commercial advantage over it’s competitors and IMHO permission should have been sought by the owners of the TPH FIRST.

    The Infectus/Argon team have contributed hardware to the scene before & I am sure that if you guys are willing to accept our sincere apologies a suitable accommodation can be found. Even if this means removing your code from package I feel that some recompense is due.

    Perhaps there’s a way to work this out before it becomes a spaghetti western shoot-out? If it has to come to a shoot out, I surrender now 🙂


  • 16 UnFlammable // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:14 pm



  • 17 aliskaba // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Maybe if you wrote a complaint in as bad of English as they can write.

    I suggest writing the complaint in English, then using google translate to translate it into Spanish, Simplified Chinese, then French, then back to English.

  • 18 Remadon // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Time for Take-Down Notices?
    … Maybe this calls for some reverse enginering.

    Why dont we just tell nintendo, They would Reverse enginer that chip in a heart-beat.


    We could let nintendo know that they stole IOS16, and let Nintendo do all the Sueing…

    –But ether way, I can only see nintendo Coming in and *Really* sending us one hell of a system update untill then.

    Hay wait a second!

    “I’m waiting a EVIDENCES”

    ~Isnt there a real nice “THIS SOFTWARE IS NOT TO BE SOLD” Thing on the Twillight Hack?
    Mabe you should just add a

    Simple Re-Phrases like this can help.

    If bad goes to worse, Sueing would End all this bull. Probably Permanently…

    Sad thing is, This happening EVERYWHERE in the homebre scene, The iPhone, Wii, Ive even seen a little for the PSP.

  • 19 funkyb // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    “… Anyone see Golem in their head?
    –myyy preciouses–”

    OK lol :), but there are many more pertinent points that people should be addressing. Insulting a foreigner’s English is just petty. Unless you can speak their language of course. Attack the ideas, (it’s easy enough!) not the person.

  • 20 aliskaba // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    If they are going to continue to use the HBC, write something that checks for the argon chip and bricks the wii if it sees it. Users get you are a dumb ass for buying this error.

  • 21 funkyb // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    Incidentally, does anyone know of the legal issues regarding DRM and the DMCA’s anti-circumvention clause? If you guys are American then that may trip you up. After all, the twilight hack is clearly intended for the sole purpose of avoiding a protection system, and so you may find your legal position severely compromised by a corporation-friendly court, such as Texas.

  • 22 comex // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    And IOS16?

  • 23 Remadon // Jan 12, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Just looking at the Bull on Argonchannel.com and if you bother to look at the “Modchip” Scroll over thing, under the “32 PIN LENS SOCKET” it will say at the end that “There will be a full ISO Emulator saved onboard the 16Mbit Flash Chip”

    — Illegal, Pirateing ISOs? Corect me if im wrong.

    Funny, Looking at there WiiClip Chip also on the Scroll over thingy, It says “Fast and Professional Installation”

    Whats so Professonal about ripped-off software and Crappy codeing?

    Hmmm, Looks like there putting a Hardware Region-Free thing on there too, 4 different switches for different regions. Or so the site says.
    More Copying of region free if you ask me.

    Apperently there is something called an “INJECTIOUS PROGRAMMER” Never heard of it Has it been Stolen or copyed from someone else too?

    I dont think the Modchip is actually writeing to the Wiis NAND, but a small 16Mbit one on the chip itself, although, Once again Im not sure.

    The “Spacific” Tab

    — Yeaaaaa, No. Mod Chips are Illegal in The US You DipShit.

    “Supports Dual-Layer”

    When the Hell did that hgappen? as far as I know Nobldy has implemented into ANY DVD Player for the wii. Does Dual-Layer Support even exist in the dev-kit?

    Hmmmm… The MPLayer background on the “MPlayer Channel” looks like property of Paramount Pictues, Ill bet my own hard earned cash that they dont have permission to use that either.

    Huh, WadManager too, There dosent seen to be Any Warning about how you could possibly BRICK your wii by doing stupid shit with this, although he might have permission to use this, isnt it illegal to even install Wads? cause the last time I checked, it was.

    Awww… Look at all the pretty looking emulators on there too! Last time I checked in the US Its Illegal to even have roms storeds on a Computer, If you own the hardware or not.

    WOW! Look at the crepy guy on the “Homebrew Apps” Page, Looks like Albert Einstine to me. Probably some image ripped off google, but then agaqin, Not too sure.

    Looking at the “Argon Tools” Page, we have at least 3 illegal Distributions of the Twilight Hack,

    Then last up, Looking at the Forum, It looks like there Logo Background thing at the top is ripped off from Ither A.) The Matrix or B.) the Screensaver.

    Total Illigal Actions That Ive seen:
    12, Correct Me if Im wrong.

    HAHA!! It was so worth my time to write this!

  • 24 Remadon // Jan 12, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Whopps, Forgot IOS 16 too,

    13 illegal actions that I can see clearly.


  • 25 icefire // Jan 12, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Actually, the WAD Manger and some WADs are perfectly legal (such as comex’s bbc.wad and installing IOS’s ripped YOURSELF from games).

    The problem with WADs is that most are illegal (either leaked/illegally distributed IOSs, VC games, WiiWare, Illegal custom channels, etc).

  • 26 kmeisthax // Jan 12, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    Hate to be ignorant, but what exactly is special about IOS16, other than it being repair-center only, illegal to distribute, and the only IOS that Nintendo can’t patch in-the-wild copies of?

    Has Twiizers or another WiiBrewer ever actually analyzed it?

  • 27 Dood77 // Jan 13, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Excuse my ignorance, but how are you related to the Arcon project? And who exactly is this guy masterDAVID who clearly has different opinions than you in this dispute?

  • 28 Dood77 // Jan 13, 2009 at 1:24 am

    Whoops, double post.

    It’s starting to sound like this guy doesn’t know the difference between a copyright and a patent…

  • 29 djdynamite123 // Jan 13, 2009 at 2:59 am

    it’s getting worse this lol, the big boys playground is getting all excited 😛
    Argon good grief what are use getting yourselves into!

  • 30 me.yahoo.com/a/HkECHaMM0 // Jan 13, 2009 at 5:15 am

    This is funny, first they basically admit, that it is your code over at wiinewz and now they’re trying to deny it.

  • 31 gamezr2ez // Jan 13, 2009 at 10:56 am

    yea this whole deal is stupid but honestly it’s THEIR stupid MISTAKE (<– noticed how i copied there punctuation, i hope they dont claim they own the copyright on that)

    but in all fairness, anyone that doesnt look around for the best deal (in this case the FREE twilight hack and HBC) really deserves to get there crappy software and pay for it

    obviously through thousands of posts on the internet and here marcan, bushing all those guys are the real writers of the code and if need be that could be proved, but if it were me i would tell there ISP the deal and then forget the whole mess and just continue to tell people that Homebrew is free and you can get everything for free. Then just focus on the Wii again!

    In other thoughts, i sorta need a NAND programmer and im not to thrilled with InFeCtuS, anyone know of someone who has made one who might be willing to share the schematics for it?

    PS. First post, although been following the site for a while, Great site guys!

  • 32 comex // Jan 13, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    kmeisthahx: Not sure if this answers your question, but the only reason IOS16 can be used to downgrade is that, while the newest updates come with patched versions of all IOSes, IOS16 is not included (for obvious reasons). The Wii won’t let you install an older version of something when you have a newer one installed, but it sees nothing wrong with installing a brand new IOS.

  • 33 Shonty // Jan 13, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    The Argon peoples are obviously kiddies :o)

    Offtopic: I´m more interessted about your opinion about the Preloader from Crediar^^

  • 34 Remadon // Jan 13, 2009 at 4:20 pm


    I meant the ones that are Illegal, sure its completly legal if you ripped the IOS off a disk, but IOS16 is for “Repair-Only” Witch means its leaked or stolen. And yes your right, WAD Manager is probably legal, but mostly used for Illegal actions, so its arguable ither way.

  • 35 kmeisthax // Jan 13, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    @comex: I knew that… I’m just wondering if IOS16 has any special features or anything that the Repair Disc uses.

  • 36 HyperHacker // Jan 13, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    @comex: So maybe Nintendo will take care of this nonsense by just blocking IOS16 from being installed with future updates, and/or requiring it to be an updated version with the patch? Since it’s only used on repair discs, they should be able to just send out a few new repair discs before doing so.

  • 37 beez276 // Jan 14, 2009 at 2:01 am

    2009-01-12 21:36:13

    After the copyright issue of some parts of our project, expecially with MARCAN.
    we decide to:

    1- Remove TWILIGH HACK from our server
    2- Remove all the applications that the owners don’t authorize the distribution
    3- We will remove LEGAL from the advertise of ARGON2, it will be nothing more than another modchip

    We apologize about all this with HOMEBREW comunity and MARCAN.
    We will meet in few days MARCAN to verify all is ok and any of his “copyright” are violated

    Now we will start to develope our own applications that we will offer trought argonchannel soon.
    SMS GATEWAY will be one of these, the possibility to send out SMS messagges to HANDY PHONES for free.



    This was posted on Argon’s site, are this guys laughing at Team Twiizers or what?

  • 38 The MAZZTer // Jan 14, 2009 at 8:39 am

    If I were you I’d be tempted to sue the hell out of them just to see if they’d try to say the same things in court.

  • 39 Deozaan // Jan 14, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    “‘I’m waiting a EVIDENCES’
    … Anyone see golem in there head?
    –myyy preciouses–”

    You’re not allowed to make fun of their bad English when (A) you also make terrible spelling mistakes and (B) English is your native language.

    I’ll fix it for you: “Anyone see *Gollum* in *their* head?” (Emphasis added so you can see your mistakes.)

    Like Shonty, I’m also curious about what Team Twiizers thinks about Crediar’s Preloader, and how it compares to BootMii. I know that they work differently (Preloader replaces Wii Menu DOL with something else vs BootMii replacing boot2 with something else) but I’d like to hear you guys analyze it and explain why or how it is or is not as effective as BootMii.

  • 40 marcan // Jan 14, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Preloader is strictly a PPC-side hack installed as the system menu, so what it provides boils down to basically two things: convenience and protection against system menu problems. The latter is slightly better than what SaveMii would get you – but we’re way past that stage and there are many things that can go wrong where preloader won’t help.

    BootMii is very different – it’s installed as early as possible. This means it minimizes its dependencies and therefore maximizes brick resistance, and also maximizes usefulness: by definition, BootMii can do more than preloader can do – because you could even boot preloader itself (or something like it) from BootMii. There’s one difference though: BootMii requires an SD card for operation (well, if you don’t have one it just falls back to a standard boot), while preloader works without one. I personally think it’s a good thing that we touch NAND as little as possible.

    BootMii is also strictly Starlet-based. Starlet boots before the PPC, so this is natural (Starlet “owns” the console). You can’t do Starlet hacks from preloader – you need to install them as IOSes. However, you can do anything from the Starlet, including PPC hacks. BootMii is kind of one-hack-to-rule-them-all in that you can theoretically do almost anything from it without installing anything else, assuming you’re willing to put the effort into it (some things are harder than others). I’m really big on the goal of requiring as little changes to NAND as possible.

    There’s also the differing quality standards for the two applications. BootMii would probably be out in its current state if crediar made it. We try really, _really_ hard to release things only when they’re useful and completely safe, and I have a feeling we try harder than crediar.

    As for resistance to updates, preloader dies when the system menu is updated (common), while BootMii will only die if boot2 is updated (has never happened to date), and even then there’s an extra catch that we’re going to throw in – bog standard boot2 updates won’t work. Preloader is also likely to die from security improvements by Nintendo (additional hashing), which might even result in an unrecoverable brick. This is impossible for BootMii because Nintendo simply can’t update boot1, which is responsible for launching BootMii. Both of course will die as a result of a targeted attack from Nintendo, because there’s nothing we can possibly do against that.

    And BootMii is dead easy to flash using a NAND writer, because it lives in a dedicated area of flash. This means you can fix any brick at all – or heck, an entirely erased NAND – by quickly flashing BootMii and, at most, also boot1, using a NAND programmer. To install preloader at a low level would require a reimplementation of the NAND FS with write functionality, which isn’t likely to happen soon.

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