There still seems to be some confusion about why we turn our noses up at WAD-manipulation tools, so I think an analogy is in order. A WAD Installer is like an ISO Loader.
Why?
WAD files and ISO files are very similar, in fact. They are container formats (like ZIP files and TAR archives), which means they can contain all sorts of different things — some good and wholesome, some evil and foolish. Unlike other containers, WADs and ISOs are generally used for self-contained, bootable content. You know, like warez.
Of course, this is not always the case and there are exceptions. You can download a bootable Linux ISO (for your computer, and eventually for your Wii). I made some semi-brick fix ISOs, and we also made some Homebrew Channel Installation discs available, too. This doesn’t change the fact that the reason anybody in the world wants an ISO Loader for their game console is so that they can rip a game disc into an ISO, put it up on BitTorrent, and trade with their friends without “wasting money” on recordable media. I don’t believe there is much argument on this point.
What about WADs? Well, what kinds of things come packaged as WADs?
- Firmware updates from Nintendo
- Ripped VC games
- Homebrew Channels
- Ripped WiiWare games
- … er, I think that’s about it.
Nobody is using a WAD Installer to install firmware updates from Nintendo. Almost nobody is using a WAD Packer to create new firmware updates. Real, genuine “Homebrew Channels” are almost nonexistent, and for good reason — they’re really tough to make when you don’t pirate existing Nintendo content for your banner file or NANDLoader. They offer more convenience than using the Twilight Hack to launch your homebrew, but that added convenience is almost never worth the added risk of bricking your Wii.
The technical reason that WADs and ISOs are mainly used for piracy is that they are the easiest ways to rip published content. When you download some random shareware program for your computer, it comes as either an executable file, or maybe an installer. The same holds true with Wii Homebrew.
However, if you’re trying to pirate a game, you pretty much have to stick with an ISO or a WAD, because the code for these games assumes that they were packaged that way, never to be modified. Therefore, people have created ISO loaders … and WAD Managers … to make it easier to trick this code into believing it is running as originally packaged.
Don’t get me wrong — it takes some hard work and clever hacking to write ISO loaders and WAD-manipulation utilities. However, you won’t catch me pretending that a WAD Installer is a “decidedly positive cause”.
53 responses so far ↓
1 ifletcher // Jun 1, 2008 at 6:13 am
great words! it’s great how you’re engaging against piracy and i totally agree with you! You’re saying it in a way no one said before you!
2 Ninth Sage // Jun 1, 2008 at 6:25 am
I agree with you…for the legitimate uses the WAD installer has, I would say that far more use it for piracy (from what I see on various internet forums). It’s a shame really. Stuff like this doesn’t have to mean piracy, but often it does. An isoloader for example, I would just use for my own games (so I could put some of the game discs away to make space on my shelves) because I’m relatively honest, but I know that if one were released far more would be pirating things.
Ah well, good read, at any rate.
3 dhewg // Jun 1, 2008 at 6:53 am
john called, doom wants its wad’s back.
but seriously, good read indeed.
i just wish ppl warezing vc and wiiware would stop calling the relevant tools “homebrew”. real homebrew is about running your own code on a machine that was never meant to do so, it’s not about stealing the work of others and repackaging it.
all these wad tools do is drag the title “wii homebrew” through the mire.
4 lincruste // Jun 1, 2008 at 7:03 am
This would’nt happen if the websites of the whole planet were not so vague about the differences between “piracy” and “hacking”.
Most of the web articles revealing the Twilight Exploit have been subtitled “Nintendo Wii has been pirated by a group of hackers”.
Sorry for the bad english, I’m trying hard to explain this on French boards.
5 Ninth Sage // Jun 1, 2008 at 7:12 am
You have a point. Some people hear the word ‘hack’ and think something like “Oh no, hackers are breaking in!” when in this case it is truly nothing like that.
6 tona // Jun 1, 2008 at 7:30 am
Nice link at the end of the article. I loled.
Tunisia? Hah. Changing the world one misguided third world pirate at a time.
7 _CONEJO // Jun 1, 2008 at 8:26 am
“john called, doom wants its wad’s back.” <— Just great!
i’m starting to feel tired about all this situation, IMHO they’re doing it wrong, but it’s a lost war, they won’t change their minds. The worst is that the meaning of “hack” is getting lost (for a good definition see hackaday.com a really good site).
“Real” homebrew is about creating, not stealing.
8 Thrash // Jun 1, 2008 at 8:47 am
Semi agree…
I Pirate games, however, I do it to avoid getting burned with terrible titles(SEVERAL come to mind on the wii). Because most stores will not allow a return of a game unless it’s been un-opened, it means that you’ve wasted £30 and are stuck with a game you dislike. With WiiWare, it’s the same deal, if I download a game and dislike it, I’m stuck with it. So yes, I pirate games, but I also have a large PAID-FOR collection of games, both physical and downloaded from the VC.
Oh! And as for VC games, I bought 2000 points to cover Nintendo’s emulator, and download titles I already own for free, as opposed to downloading games I never paid for…
I also realise that many people DO just download the games and don’t support any devs., and tbh they spoil it for people like myself who simply want to try before they buy.
9 Thrash // Jun 1, 2008 at 8:49 am
Forgot to mention, I play downloaded games for around half an hour… if it’s good, I buy it, if not, it’s deleted. I support developers of GOOD games all the way
10 Dasda // Jun 1, 2008 at 9:11 am
ISO’s and WAD’s are the easiest way to publish contents, and because of that, they’re used everywhere else on the platform for warez (but also for other things!). These formats have nothing to do with warez themselves.
But still I have to agree that a WAD-installer isn’t really positive, since it’s only going to get used for warez anyway. If you would like to install a Nintendo update, you should do that from the Wii Menu (either from internet or game-disc).
It would be pretty hard to release a homebrew channel (which basically is the same as any other trucha-signed channel) without risking to allow piracy as well.
Piracy sucks, and gives Nintendo a reason to patch all the hours everyone spent on exploiting the Wii. It’s like one regrets that everything was so open. It’s not completely lost, but the homebrew channel is sooner or later.
11 shazy // Jun 1, 2008 at 9:48 am
personally i wouldnt buy a console if i had to pay for the games call me what you want, im just being honest, i only bought the wii cause it was hacked and would run downloaded games so the way i see it the devs arent really losing out cause they wouldnt have got it in the first place
99 percent of the games on the wii are cack and it was a waste using a disc to burn them
carry on the good work
12 Wolfeman // Jun 1, 2008 at 10:27 am
I’m sort of confused as to how you didn’t include backing up your own LEGAL digital media… You’ve completely overlooked that for some reason.
I agree with your comments up to and stopping at piracy. I disagree with your conclusions regarding uses for the various ripping, installing and manipulating utilities including wad packers, extractors & installers as they are currently the only way to completely safeguard my hard earned money that I put in to my VC collection.
I also use them to juggle/manage the vc games so I can buy more games than my Wii can keep on it at any one time.
I’m sorry if you feel that not a worthy thing to be able to do.
I wont even get in to the argument revolving around emulators/roms -vs- VC/wad games and how they’re really both piracy when you get right down to the nuts and bolts of it.
13 Newbie // Jun 1, 2008 at 11:09 am
@bushing
What is the purpose of this post?
Are you trying to start a flame or find excuses for yourself?
IMO, it’s nothing wrong in what you do.
And it doesn’t matter how good you intentions are it’s always be people accusing you in wrongdoing…
And thanks for the little technical part – it’s worth reading (as always!)
14 tehnoir // Jun 1, 2008 at 1:26 pm
“i only bought the wii cause it was hacked and would run downloaded games so the way i see it the devs arent really losing out cause they wouldnt have got it in the first place”
You really think they make that much off the hardware? If you asked most devs which they’d prefer, they’d probably say they’d rather you just not buy the Wii. Especially with Wiis still be in short supply, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to have bought that instead of you and actually pay for the games.
If you think the game might suck, try reading reviews. You can always borrow it from friends or ask their opinions. You can even get a 30-day free trial for Blockbuster with which you could rent games and try them out.
I can see where people are coming from with the “I’ll try it and buy it if I like it” mentality, but the fact is that they are the minority. It also seems there are a lot of people who start out like that but find it so convenient to not have to pay, that they soon stop buying everything they want to keep.
I also think it’s sad that these “consumers” don’t realize how it effects them. Do you really get the same enjoyment out of a game and hold the same appreciation for it when you don’t pay for it? My personal experience has been that when it’s easy to just download it and “try it”, that I quickly take it for granted and don’t get nearly as much enjoyment out of it. That’s just me though.
15 Benji // Jun 1, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I agree with you,
but still i must say that even tough its illegal with piracy i don’t think that you should stop thinking of the “positive” aspects of ISO loaders and such etc. I would love to be able to backup my games and play them without modding my wii, then of course some people would use such a program for piracy but that wasn’t necessarily the creators wish. I don’t think the creator of for example a ISO loader should feel bad because of Piracy if it wasn’t his intention.
Talking about piracy like this will probably just make people more intressted in trying to make or talk anyone else into making a ISO loader or w/e.
16 WADs and ISOs: The Warez Connection talk by bushing « VettaCossX’s Console Hacking Site // Jun 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm
[...] WADs and ISOs: The Warez Connection talk by bushing June 2, 2008 Posted by vettacossx in Wii Hacks. trackback WADs and ISOs: The Warez Connection [...]
17 vettacossx // Jun 1, 2008 at 5:09 pm
gr8 work boss we really appreciate all you guys are doing for us nice to hear the progress reports look forward to your next post waiting with baited breath…On the topic of iso loaders i have a psp with custom firmeware yet i still preorder games i support recently i pre ordered both final fantasy 7 CC and god of war chains of olympus
(even with a iso loader we DO actually support GOOD titles but its nice to try before you buy i also use xbox live arcade because i can try before i buy)
18 Rusty // Jun 1, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Apparently the warez kids really come out to play when they hear “ISOs”. They are a zealous bunch spouting ridiculous, faith-based notions that warez helps game companies. Please see the humor in their protests, and keep up the good work.
19 ChucktheTekkie // Jun 2, 2008 at 1:37 am
Last week I overheard a GameStop employee on the phone telling someone how to download pirated PSP and PSX games for the PSP on the store phone.
I could not believe what I was hearing.
Most of the games I buy, I buy used so I can try them out with no obligation of having to keep them if I don’t like them.
Of course, waiting for someone to trade the game is another problem.
I think nintendo would benefit if they offered VC Games and WiiWare as trials first to let people try before they buy like the Xbox Marketplace does.
I never rely on game reviews because everyone has a different opinion.
I own several games that got lousy reviews, but I enjoy them immensely.
I do think Nintendo needs to get their act together and fix some of Wii’s flaws, such as low storage capacity. I deleted a couple of my Paid VC games to make room for others and now I can’t re download the older ones for free.
One of my VC games show up in the Wii Menu but shows up in the Shop Channel like I never bought it.
I agree that the word “hack” and “Hacker” is so misdefined.
A Hacker is someone who likes to toy around with something. My computer dictionary say a hacker is an enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.
The majority of the world believes that Hackers are bad.
A Bad Hacker is defined as a “Cracker”.
20 lincruste // Jun 2, 2008 at 3:07 am
@ChucktheTekkie
Well when you buy an used game, you don’t support the devs at all nor the software industry.
21 ... // Jun 2, 2008 at 8:21 am
ChucktheTekkie a “Bad Hacker” is still a Bad Hacker == Unskilled Hacker and a “Cracker” is not necessarily a Hacker to begin wit …
Just because one ting can be used for illegal purposes doesn’t mean it is illegal.
For example just because the PS3 can be used for a rocket’s targeting mechanism doesn’t make it one so stop the bullshit about home brew and piracy…
P.S. Unlike most of you we don’t live in USA so there is no rentals, money back, second hand shops, etc. … and on top of that we usually have to pay the same price if not more for each game but in EURO (at rate of 1.55+ USD for EURO) that’s allot of extra money + 2-6 months delay after the USA premiere (+ aditional month or two for my local reseler) …
YES I do pirate games AND I’ll continue until we don’t get the same price and premiere date + some more freedom from the developers and some better quality from the game makers.
Just because I dload a game and play it doesn’t mean I don’t buy or preorder it a few months later when it is available in the local reseller …
22 marcan // Jun 2, 2008 at 9:55 am
@ChucktheTekkie
If you delete a downloaded VC title normally, if will show up as redownloadable on the shop. If not, I’m sure you can call Nintendo and they’ll fix it for you.
However, if you used one of those “homebrew” tools for “managing WADs” or whatever, then no wonder it’s gone for good. None of the people writing those tools really know what they’re doing.
23 I_R_on // Jun 2, 2008 at 10:46 am
here what I think,
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=88643&st=30&#entry1182761
WiiCrazy@{Gbatemp, … } = I_R_on
24 Held-zum-Mieten // Jun 2, 2008 at 11:43 am
@”…” there are many words for a “bad hacker” and there are way too much words for hackers and crackers and black hats and white hats and so on… actually, that is the problem. You can tell someone that a hacker isnt “evil”, but in his next conversation most of them will say “hacker”, to someone who is “evil”. Its like racial prejudices, you cant stop it, you only can try to find some guys who are thinkin like you. Sometimes you cant distinguish an “black hat” from an “white hat”, because he himself don’t attack sth directly, but makes it possible for others and he knows that.
and to all the “try before buy”-guys. Well, if you wanna try it, buy it. And if you dislike it, you can resell it at ebay or some other way. Or go to an video rental store…
Download/Copy Software IS a crime, no matter wether its easy and do not feels like steeling a car or something else or not.
25 Held-zum-Mieten // Jun 2, 2008 at 11:51 am
the “evil” guys often call themselves “hackers”, its like skinheads and nazis. A real skinhead isnt a nazi, but a nazi can look exactly like a skinhead and say that hes a skinhead and so many people are thinkin, that all skinheads are nazis, without lookin for the roots of the skins. But that kinda discussions are kinda senseless, because there will always are prejudices.
26 steve // Jun 2, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I’m sorry, but the sheer idiocy of people claiming that it is ok to pirate is just rediculous for any reason…
I don’t care how you try to justify it, you’re hurting the developers. I used to be that way. I used to sit around, and justify things like “Well, its only me, I wasn’t going to buy it anyway”, or “Its a huge company, what can my money do?”. Having worked now in the industry, I see the lengths developers and companies both large and small have to go through to keep their IP safe.
Now, I don’t like devices locking me out. I think thats crappy. It hinders innovation, and it hinders creativity. I think some of the best projects have come about from just the guy or small team tinkering around and finding out something cool. I don’t think thats necessary to prevent piracy.
What really just gets me though is people honestly think this is all Ok… Its ok to pirate media because the game sucked, or it was too expensive. I want to see any one of you go to work as a software developer. I want your livelihood to depend on the sale of your software. That experience changed my perspective on software piracy forever.
I completely and totally support homebrew. I think it opens the doors for some amazing things to come, and I love the fact it opens the doors for completely independent individual developers to come in and get a stab at creating something new, fun, and cool. I think its great to be able to use the hardware you purchased for whatever reason you see fit. I don’t think its ok to steal content.
bushing, I hope you continue to rock on with all the amazing stuff you’re doing. And I love this blog. The information in it is just incredible.
27 wowfunhappy // Jun 2, 2008 at 6:49 pm
“A wad installer (Like an ISO loader) can be used for legal reasons, but most people who use it for legal reasons, are using for illegal reasons as well.” - My interpretation of Bushing’s blog post, and what I will be responding to.
I for one can say that I’ve used the WAD installer many times to install custom, homebrew channels. Every Wiiware and VC game on my wii (and disk, for that matter) was legally bought my me. I for one have made good use of the WAD installer, and have used it only for legal purposes.
Then again, the banners for those channels were made using a leaked Nintendo SDK, so I guess if you look at it that way (Which I don’t) you could say it’s piracy. I don’t consider it piracy though.
What HAVE done is I’ve used emulators on my Wii to play pirated games. But then, one of the reasons that do that is because, quite honestly, you guys (Team Twiizers) have indirectly been endorsing emulators (You released it in your HBC package for example), and I look up to you…
28 tehnoir // Jun 2, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“What HAVE done is I’ve used emulators on my Wii to play pirated games. But then, one of the reasons that do that is because, quite honestly, you guys (Team Twiizers) have indirectly been endorsing emulators (You released it in your HBC package for example), and I look up to you…”
Way to pass the blame. Take some ownership for your actions. Just because you look up to somebody is not an excuse to steal because you think that they were implying it was okay. Even if they flat out said “Go steal as many games as you can”, you need to learn to set your own morals and beliefs. If you’re playing pirated games on an emulator, you’re the criminal, not the people that gave you a tool that can do it.
Do you think DVD burner manufacturers are endorsing movie piracy?
29 Anonymous // Jun 3, 2008 at 1:32 am
I pirate some games that are made for people around the ages of 13 because of the fact that they want us to pay $80au for them. Most people that age don’t have that kind of money to play games that they like, and would rather not have to spend so much. I purchase games from Steam because you need to buy them to play online and the online is the best part of the game, but I despise pirates that download games and sell them to people for money because that money should goto the people who made the games and not to some pirate.
30 Wii Homebrew Channel Questions - WiiNewz Forums // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:14 am
[...] Can I easily uninstall the channel? Ofcourse, just remove it as any other ordinary savegame or channel through "data management" in the Wii settings menu. Will this remove all traces of the channel? No, since there are many logs and other tidbits that remain, created by the Wii software. However, none of these should cause any issues. We will address the problems if and when they come. You might also want to read this: WADs and ISOs: The Warez Connection [...]
31 ... // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:19 am
tehnoir, according to law they are because every time you by a CD\DVD media (I think the same is added to the burner’s but I’m not certain) you pay a tax (included in the price) for the right to burn a backup of copyrighted material you own on it and none cares if you actually burn a backup or something you created you still have to pay the tax …
And what about the tax on LCD\TFT monitors just because you can use them for TV\VCR output they are taxed as TV sets and not as monitors regardless of the fact that they don’t have a tuner inside.
steve, “the sheer idiocy of people claiming that ” piracy == stealing “is just ridiculous for any reason…”
I was working for a software development company and I started using more pirated products since then because I saw how much time is spent on development, how much money is earned by the company and how much of them is given to the people who actually made the software.
Not to mention the fact that I’m not going to give 50+ EURO for a game that YOU (USA citizens) can buy for 20$ AND I’m NOT even going to download a copy of it for the very same reason. Yes the game is worth more than 20$ but I’m not going to buy it for ~4 times more than that + shipping.
P.S. The USA is not == to the World so stop comparing the situation you are living in with the situation the rest of the world is living in. Just a simple example:
In USA the minimal wager per year is (correct me if I’m wrong):
8$ * 8h * 20days ~= 1280$/month
1280$/month * 12months ~= 15,360$
In my Country:
~150$/month * 12months ~= 1,800$
So with the difference of about 10/1 it’s no wonder there is so much piracy + the fact that the prices here are at minimum the same amount BUT in EURO (thats 1,55+ USD for 1 EURO) …
The average person makes ~320$/month
~320$/month * 12months ~= 3840$
So we have 4/1 difference with the minimal in USA to average here and more expensive prices for the same product…
So who is stealing from who?
P.S.S. And YES it is still PIRACY and it is still considered illegal. AND I do not intend to lie to myself about it. BUT I won’t stop doing it soon …
BTW did any one of you take in consideration what is the difference between miking a copy of a movie/song and a painting and why is one considered illegal and the other is recommended?
32 ... // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:28 am
Yes the people who sell illegal copy’s of any commercial products or worst the ones selling freeware products or modifying them in order to make profit are stealing from everyone including the people who buy from them. And they should be considered thief’s. But the same dos NOT have to apply to the people who dload the same things from the Internet with no profit whatsoever …
33 Held-zum-Mieten // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:39 am
No one forces you to buy/use that games or software! You don’t have to, you can ask people or try software at them and then buy it, if you like it.
And you said something about how many you earn in a month… A developer wants to earn money, too!
34 ... // Jun 3, 2008 at 6:34 am
Held-zum-Mieten, and how do you suggest that I try something that’ll be available no less than 3months after it went on sale in the states? Or atleast 1 or 2 months after the UK premiere?
Most of the time I have to import the UK version because the local reseller won’t be selling it or because it is much cheaper to buy it from there + the shipping than buy it from him …
As i said do not think that the USA market and services are available worldwide …
“No one forces you to buy/use that games or software!” - That’s true, BUT what happens when I want to buy it and I have the money but I have to pay atleast 2X in EURO, get it atleast 2-3months after USA/UK citizens (yes I live in a EU country) and I get no warranty and/or support for it?
35 bushing // Jun 3, 2008 at 7:18 am
Wow, it seems like some other people have some opinions on this, too!
I didn’t write this to start a big argument about piracy. People are going to do what they want to do; I can try to set a good example and provide people ways to do wholesome things, but I don’t really expect to change anyone’s mind.
Remember my first blog posts about the responsibility that coders have for the the users and use of their software? And how they should at least try to do to the right thing, and not do things that are obviously going to lead to mischief, mayhem and calamity?
Marcan posted some Python-based Wii tools, which included quite a bit of wad-manipulation code (which we are using to create the Homebrew Channel). I don’t think it made much of a difference, because very few people seemed to notice it sitting up there in plain sight. He took it down once the VC piracy started happening. Why?
Let’s say he had some open-source wad installation / packing / extracting / patching / whatever tools up for public download, and 1000 people downloaded them.
I would estimate those 1000 people would break down something like:
* 4 actual developers who are using the wad packer to package something up into an installer for a legitimate application like the Homebrew Channel
* 1 person who is actually backing up their legitimately-purchased VC games, in preparation for the Apocalypse where Nintendo won’t be around to let them re-download those games or won’t transfer their Wii-shop credits in case of a broken Wii
* 400 people who are using a wad packager to install an Emulator Channel: 30 of them have a bunch of old cartridges lying around, and want to play those games (and only those games!) on their Wii without paying $5-15 to redownload each game as a VC title. The other 370 people are just trying to avoid having to pay any money for VC stuff because they’re cheap.
* 595 people who are downloading packs of every VC game imaginable from BitTorrent, and then posting whiny messages to forums about how their Wii won’t boot because they filled up their NAND filesystem.
The problem here is that all of these people try to wave the “Homebrew” flag. *That* is what pisses me off. I count 4 people that are actually using it for homebrew, 31 people that are living by their own moral code, and 865 pirates.
Do what you have to do, but don’t hide behind stupid terms like “booting backups”.
36 bushing // Jun 3, 2008 at 7:20 am
@Dasda: “ISO’s and WAD’s are the easiest way to publish contents” … right. They’re the easiest way for someone to make a file that other people can use.
Real coders who put hours and hours into developing software are going to write actual, real installers. That leaves the primary publishers of WADs as pirates.
37 ... // Jun 3, 2008 at 7:35 am
bushing, can’t the big N give us one instead of bitching about piracy? Way should the dev’s have to waste time write there own installer if there is one available?
Since when is a container a pirates only tool even if it is mostly used by them because it is convenient for there needs?
38 Held-zum-Mieten // Jun 3, 2008 at 7:43 am
Im from europe, too man ;). Where do you live, that you dont get any warranty and support?? Actually, for example Mario Kart started in Europe BEFORE it started in America. You are just searching for reasons, why you pirate. And why do you need the game before it comes out in Europe? I think in countrys in which you dont get warranty or/and support, you have other problems than having the latest games.
39 Bushing´s wort zum Juni - Wiihack.de // Jun 3, 2008 at 8:24 am
[...] and ISOs: The Warez Connection June 1st, 2008 by bushing · 38 Comments There still seems to be some confusion about why we turn our noses up at WAD-manipulation tools, [...]
40 I_R_on // Jun 3, 2008 at 11:47 am
{
@Dasda: “ISO’s and WAD’s are the easiest way to publish contents” … right. They’re the easiest way for someone to make a file that other people can use.
Real coders who put hours and hours into developing software are going to write actual, real installers. That leaves the primary publishers of WADs as pirates.
}
Just things turned out that way doesn’t mean it should have been that way.
I don’t think it would be that hard to write an application that merges the wad installer with the wad and provide a single self installer elf like homebrew channel.
And I assure you, if that tools distributed that way in the early days of wad piracy maybe we would all be seeing now wads with self installers.
For example, In windows world, some developers prefer installers so that noobs can use their app too, some provide both of them and some only provide it packaged. That’s mainly because there was no standard package system for applications to install in the early days of the OS. In some linux systems and the like however there are well defined package systems so there is no need to write an installer for most of the applications.
Let’s get back to the wii world and put the installing part away, there is a must. You should package your application as a wad be it homebrew or pirate stuff if you *want* to see your application as a *channel*. Otherwise I guess you need to have a proper write access to the memory of your wii instead of making system calls to install a wad.
People won’t give up the convenience of the channels even with the overhead of extra memory usage. I myself too see it plain stupid when I see people’s requests for channel conversions in gbatemp forum but that’s the way some people want.
And see what will happen the day a huge homebrew emerged, people will want it as a distinct channel, like homebrew channel. Installed with a wad installer or a self installer doesn’t matter.
So, Just things turned out by now that way doesn’t mean it should be from now on that way.
41 steve // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:08 pm
piracy = stealing. Period. You are denying a producer of content who made a significant investment in said content from reaping the rewards of producing that content.
If I go down the road where there is a kid selling lemonade and I grab the lemonade from them, drink it, and don’t leave a quarter, is that stealing?
As for the painting - because you aren’t producing an exact replica. You can get close, but it isn’t as good/identical 100% to the original. And if you do that, and give it away, you are denying the artist from the profit they deserved and thus devaluing the item.
My father is an artist, he produces sculptures. He sold a sculpture to a group, and that group took the sculpture, made an identical mold, reproduced it 100 times over, and sold it in a gift shop. Because of the fact the molding process can preserve the integrity of the original, it was indistinguishable from any original piece. Is this fair to him? He sells one, and then gets denied the profit from the other 100? What if they had just given them away? Still alright? Even though he spent 6 months making it, invested heavily in it, and swallowed the initial costs? Probably ok.
As for the “trying” it thing, you could just learn some patience and wait 3 months… I want a new car. I think I know which one I want. I can’t afford it for about 6 months, maybe a year. Is it OK for me to go and grab one for the lot because I can’t have it now?
Though I love how you can justify downloading it for free isn’t stealing, but reselling it is. So, if you paid a 3rd party for it, and its wrong because that money should go to the developer, why shouldn’t the money you didn’t spend to get it for free go to the developer? I think I’m missing the point here.
But no matter what, people will do what they will, and they find a need to justify it only when they feel like what they are doing is wrong. Otherwise, it would be totally OK to just do it….
Piracy puts developers out of jobs. It hurts the industry, it hurts openness and creativity. And it puts restrictions on users that probably don’t need to be there if they were trustworthy.
I’m not really sure why I even bother.
42 ... // Jun 4, 2008 at 3:27 am
steve, stealing a material thing can’t be equal to making a copy of something. You are looking only at one side of the argument so your opinion can’t be considered as fair.
One of the biggest mistake you can make is to compare/consider digital products as equals of the material products. The main point is that once I take a material ting you no longer have it and can’t use/sell it BUT if I take a digital “thing” you still have it AND can do whatever you want with it.
If you go down the road and there is a kid selling lemonade, make yourself one (without using any of his ingredients), drink it, and don’t leave a quarter, is that stealing?
Just because you can’t produce an exact replica of a painting doesn’t mean someone else can’t or that a machine can’t + when you make a copy of a move or a song you don’t make an exact replica of the original but YOU are still calling it stealing. (consider your own logic, not the legal side of the argument)
No your father was ripped of and although it is not exactly stealing from him it is still unfair for him.
No it is not BUT you can still rent the same type/model car, And I’m speaking of the situation where I HAVE the money but CAN’T order/preorder the product.
It is simple stealing is when you take “something” from someone and he no longer have that “something”. But if you make a copy of that thing is it stealing? If you go to a library and make a copy of a book is it stealing? BTW I never sad it is fair to dload it, but dloading is closer to making a copy of a book in the public library than stealing. On the other hand when you go to a store and buy a illegal copy of a book you and the author are both ripped and the profit goes to someone else.
“Piracy puts developers out of jobs. It hurts the industry, it hurts openness and creativity. And it puts restrictions on users that probably don’t need to be there if they were trustworthy.” - WRONG if piracy did not exist we would have not been here, and the Wii, PS2, PSP, … would not have even 1/10 of there user base. And what about the “honest” firms stealing from the open source community? Way should we pay for software at all wen we can get it for free (as in use freeware/supportware) and only pay to the authors for support? And way is this model so prosperous as of late? Have you ever considered any of thous questions?
P.S. Just because you think something is right doesn’t make it so. And just because one thing is wrong from your point view doesn’t mean it is wrong at all. Just because piracy is considered illegal doesn’t mean it as harmful for the industry as they claim, not to mention all the benefits they are conveniently “forgetting” to mention …
here are some educational materials for people like you:
http://www.stealthisfilm.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orEhUEcxHeY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eh2lZ9_evo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVHUbrbEUA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSQQ1NqOaA4&feature=related
43 Wii Homebrew Channel Questions - WiiNewz Forums // Jun 4, 2008 at 4:13 am
[...] not supported, and there will never be an official HBC Wad file. You might also want to read this: WADs and ISOs: The Warez Connection Last edited by Frozen-Solid; Yesterday at 07:15 [...]
44 north // Jun 4, 2008 at 9:57 am
I love it bushing.
Keep up the great blogs.
and keep taking names!
45 PaRaDoX // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
@Bushing/Team Twiizers
My opinion is: If you woldn’t have exploited the Wii in the first place, none of this would have happened.
We can use your exploit for good, and for bad, exactly as the WAD/ISO’s things you’re talking about.
So, if you say that coders who make WAD Installers are pirates, I call you pirates too for making the exploit. Not only pirates, but guilty of ALL the losses Nintendo is having.
PD: I’m just applying your big chunk of text/garbage to other things, 100% acceptable by everyone.
PD2: Yes, I pirate games. Also, I pirate banners and use them to make channels, using Marcan’s apploader. It’s all pirate, and you can’t do anything about it.
46 PaRaDoX // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:40 am
Oh, I forgot.
Your Brick Fixer uses Copyrighted files from Nintendo. Also, you can only get that type of brick using a different region game, booted with a MODCHIP.
Now, if that isn’t ilegal to you, you’d better get some good answers for me, because I’ve got loads of other “things” you have done that can be called ilegal.
You’re all just a bunch of hypocrites, and don’t accept other Teams works when they are as ilegal as all yours.
47 bushing // Jun 5, 2008 at 3:49 am
@PaRaDoX: You know, we agree on some of this. I was trying to make two points here:
1) I don’t like it when people lie and make excuses and call pirated VC games “homebrew” and pirated discs “backups”.
2) I don’t think people should pirate software, because developers deserve to be compensated for their work.
I think we agree on #1, and I don’t think it’s worth arguing #2 — I know that I won’t change your mind. So, I respect you for being honest.
To respond to your other points, individually:
* I never said “coders who make WAD Installers are pirates”. Anybody (coders, users, newbs, whoever) who denies that WAD installers / ISO loaders are mostly used for warez is either stupid or dishonest. No more, no less.
(I think it’s a bad idea to make something you know will be mostly used for piracy; if you disagree, that doesn’t make you a pirate or stupid. It just means we disagree.)
* Yes, you’re right. The system-menu-update ISOs contain two pieces of code (WADS! ohnoes) by Nintendo — IOS30, and the appropriate System Menu. I hesitated to release these, because of that reason — but I made a judgement call. I decided that the discs would help many people, and that they wouldn’t really hurt Nintendo (and I explain why below). I don’t think Nintendo will care, but if they ask me to I’ll take them down.
* Bricking is bad for everyone. It’s bad for the user, because it makes their Wii less useful (or useless, depending.) It’s bad for me because it makes it hard to hack on most of the interesting Wii code that I want to hack on.
It’s even bad for Nintendo. If you brick your Wii by booting a pirated copy of whatever, you have three choices if you want to continue to play video games:
1) Buy another Wii, and stop pirating games and start buying real games
2) Buy another Wii, chip it again, and try to be more careful
3) Buy another video game system.
If you do 1), they make a good profit (an extra Wii + the licensing fees from games you would have pirated but are now too scared to).
If you do 2), they make a little bit of profit (on the new Wii), but nothing more.
If you do 3), they lose you as a customer to Microsoft or Sony.
I think they lose more money to #3 than they make from #1 + #2. They also lose money if some people manage to trick them into fixing their bricked Wiis under warranty, and they get a little bit of bad press.
Also, they hope that they can fix the security holes and make people start buying games again, but that doesn’t work if people switch to PS3.
What other illegal “things” have I done?
48 ... // Jun 5, 2008 at 4:13 am
bushing, let me rephrase that:
Anybody (users, newbs, whoever) who denies that gun’s are mostly used for killing is either stupid or dishonest. No more, no less.
(I think it’s a bad idea to make something you know will be mostly used for killing; if you disagree, that doesn’t make you a killer or stupid. It just means you we disagree.)
I agree with you about the unbrick discs.
You forgot:
0) Buy another Wii, chip it again but this time with better chip so he won’t be able to brick it with imported disk (original or not)
4) Fix it himself
Who cares what other illegal “things” have You done… we (or atleast) are/I’m grateful for what you have done until now and about the few other illegal things you must have done to do it.
49 bushing // Jun 5, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Straw man.
Option #0 is the same as my option #2. Option #4 is not yet feasible, but I’m trying to change that.
50 steve // Jun 5, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Not paying for software denys the development company of their profits. Its taking money from their wallet, plain and simple. You pay a license to use it. Stealing does not just mean denying use of an object, any loss, of profits or otherwise, constitutes stealing. You deny a company of money, and thus steal.
You have no room to argue open source “stealing”, as that is legally covered in a license, the license you accept when you use the software. If a devloper violates that in their software, or a firm, they need to have their asses nailed to the wall for it. The difference in open source is a developer chooses to have their software that way.
“No your father was ripped of and although it is not exactly stealing from him it is still unfair for him.” So, by that logic, is it fair to the software company? NO!
By the way, definition of stealing - ” to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right” IP is property. If you were to take the recipe for coke and make an exact duplicate, would that be stealing? YES! You stole the recipe, and thus deny them of profits…
Again, all irrelivant. nobody will change because of what I have to say on the internet.
51 ... // Jun 6, 2008 at 4:36 am
bushing, there are chips that won’t let you upgrade from the DVD.
steve, so if I make a copy of a product I own I’m stealing since I’m not buying the backup copy…
Do I write in Engrish or you don’t understand what I wrote about the open source?
There is very little in common between the two cases so I won’t even try to compare them - if you think there is no difference between them and make me explain it to you I’ll probably have to insult you and/or your father in the progress.
Then how about if I invent a product that have the same recipe and start selling it, is that stealing too?
52 . // Jun 8, 2008 at 11:52 am
The argument that denying a company of money = stealing is entirely indefensible. What if I write a review of a game, calling it a complete waste of time and money, terrible graphics and gameplay, and 50 people decide not to buy the game after reading my review. I’ve deprived Nintendo of $2500 (!) but I’ve certainly done nothing illegal, and most people would agree that I’ve done nothing immoral either. And a sale not gained is not even comparable to a sale lost, regardless of what “IP law” (a complete mess, right now) says.
As to the recipe example, that’s why we have trademark law, to prevent people from misrepresenting products. It has nothing to do with “stealing.”
53 John Gaines // Jul 13, 2008 at 11:48 am
Everyone has a point here and I respect all your views. Nintendo has the right to protect their product and some of you have a point in protecting your investments by making “back ups”.
In my case, I only buy original discs but I am guilty of having a modchip. I bought my console from back home- the u.s. and since I’m an ex-pat working overseas, I had it modded so I can just buy pal games locally.
My mistake was a simple update and boom, my wii was semi bricked. I paid for all my games. I am just glad my wii is back to normal except for duplicate channels. Thanks Bushing for the fix!
I don’t think having a modchip can be equal to piracy if I pay for my original games, although I am guilty of cross-region purchase. My point is, there are tools we can put to good or bad use, in the end, we are responsible for our own actions.
I believe Bushing’s decision to release the fix for semi bricked wiis is commendable and it would be a big PR disaster for Nintendo if they ask that it be taken down.
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